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 Post subject: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMANCE>>>
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:39 am 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
I dont come on here much, but know a few of you guys so you might be interested in this.

I started a build a few months ago at Fonse Performance, I wanted to share it with you guys as most of you know the family.

Before I dropped off anything I got a tour of the facility. The tour was an impressive one with detailed explanations of every stage the engine goes through from beginning to end. The concept that it was all in house until it was out the door in my hands was a strong point.

The progress is moving along and I wanted to show you the professional results I am getting from the family at Fonse Performance.

While this is a Mopar build - it shows the facility as we go through it one step at a time, and the process would be the same for any engine platform.


Here is the foundation of the build :

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a 1979 X block I got about 8 years ago for 100 bux - It was laying around after being built and was never ran. It was clearanced for a 3.79" stroke , aluminum rods, and had w2 heads - i never got the rods, pistons or heads.



Got my rotating assembly together -
BPE's pistons with a -17cc dish for an approx 10.25:1 with a .039 fel pro 1008 head gasket.
the rods are 6.200 long Callies Compstar rods - they have 2" journals and .927 pins - they are nice and light ( 595 grams ) and are plenty strong for my build.







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the compstar's are nice - arp 2000 screws and have already been stretched 3 times - the length of the rod has already been polished

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like i said they come in at 595 grams +/- 1 gram so they didnt need ot be cleaned up for balancing and the K1 variety is alot heavier at 627 grams

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Last edited by DJV on Thu May 19, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:39 am 


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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMNCE >>>
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:39 am 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
got the parts to the machine shop and started the long process

before -

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after shot blasting

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On to the Crank -

We checked a number of things to determine the overall quality and condition of the crank. - all measurements were taken at 62 degrees F

1 - straightness - .001
2 - OD of the Mains - 2.4998
3 - OD of the rod journals - 1.9995
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4 - Taper of rods and mains - ( worst one ) .0002
5 - Out of round - NA
6 - OD of the snout ( to fit balancer later ) 1.532
7 - Stroke - we came up with 4.125" for all throws except one - that was the 3,4 journal and it was 4.126"
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Just another thought when i got home last night I went to callies site and looked at the $1100 dragonslayer crank specs and what they guarantee their cranks to spec out at - here is the quote -


So for half the price I got a crank within the spec of the Callies Dragonslayer - not bad in my opinion!

Last thing we checked for was the oiling holes were indeed drilled all the way - and they were!
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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMNCE >>>
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:41 am 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
Didnt want to leave any stone unturned with a new part and have an issue later.
the deck was a mess when we put it on the ROTTLER CNC machine - 12 thousands off on the drivers side and 10 thousands off on the passenger side.
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While the deck was flat - and this block was machined at a very reputable shop in the 80's the machinery of today has brought inconsistencies like this to the forefront of modern engine building.

so I had a flat, crooked deck on this sucker. But it will clean up within spec for the rotating assembly.



Speaking about the rotating assembly - It measured out to 1794.6 grams for the bobweight - nice and light!
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Weights were consistent for everything :

Rods: +/- 2 grams - 599-601
pistons - +/- 1 gram - 471-472

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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMNCE >>>
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:41 am 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
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The TCI Rattler had to be fitted to the crank which was 1.532" and the balancer was 2 1/2 thousands smaller - It was honed to fit with a 1 1/2 thou press fit.

The bore centers were checked and while some were not centered correctly the CNC machine bores to where it was supposed to be centered. I think the worst cylinder was 2 thousands off from center to center

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After all the cylinders were punched out we decked the block.
Remember I said earlier that the deck was flat - but not square to the deck? well after the first cut you can actually see the difference in out of square...

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This shot was taken as the second pass was being made on the deck. - you can clearly see the top of the deck was taller then the bottom, and not it is square to the cylinders.

some chevy guys were asking if this setup cleared the counterweight - apparently in chev land this is a problem...

not in mopar world -

you need .060 clear from the skirt to the counterweight... we have 1.060 miles..lol

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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMNCE >>>
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:53 am 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
we are fitting the main caps up and drilled them

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these suckers take a long time to fit up perfectly and man are they alot meatier then the standard cap.

the 4 bolts are possible in the x block since the pan rails are filled in that area where they are not in the stock block,.



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we mocked up the rotating assembly to see if everything cleared - it did by a mile thanks to the 2" journal.

From left to right :

4.125" Stroke setup - BPE Piston - .927 pin - Compstar 6.200 Rod w/ 2" journal - total weight - 1186g - Total Bobweight - 1749g

4" Cast Stroke setup - KB Piston - .984 pin - SCAT 6.125 rod w/ 2.125" journal - total weight - 1216g - Total Bobweight - 1799 G

3.31" Stroke Setup - Stock Piston - .984 pin - Stock rod - total weight - 1508 - Total Bobweight? over 2000 G I assume?
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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMNCE >>>
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:55 am 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
the heads are at Shady Dell Speed Shop to get the port work done.


The cam selected will require a 954 spring ( double with damper ). This required a tool steel retainer and super 10 degree lock.

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The lifters are the COMP 8043 lifters that have the link bars in the front as opposed to the older style 828 lifters. These should require no grinding on the block and since the block is tubed the ability of the lifter to pushrod oil is not going to be used.


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Side shot of the lifters.
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Have not had much time lately, so not much to update - I have been collecting parts but as far as the bock goes - the 4 bolt mains are done.


The only PIA is the pro-gram supplied studs - if they had been setup for an allen head to run them down like the main studs it would save alot of time.

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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMNCE >>>
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:55 am 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
We line bored with the CNC machine - and this is setting the cutter up.

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Next it was line honed - taking the last bit out of the new caps and set the oil clearances.
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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMNCE >>>
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:56 am 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
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Side by side - next to the competition - you can really see the difference in crank to cam centerlines - the mopar block has a mile compared to the chevy

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Getting ready for the final hone - the bottoms of the cylinders needed to be cleaned up - the cut from the bore was sharp at the end and the grinder and sand rolls smoothed it out so that the piston would not scratch when it was all the way down. It will have some rock and the skirts will keep from getting scuffed at that point.

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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMNCE >>>
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:57 am 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
Here are a few shots of the heads :

stockers:

Chamber - 2.02 & 1.60 valves are stock eddy

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Intake ( Front )
as delivered form Edelbrock - the casting was cleaned up slightly at the factory - they tend to leave depressions where the corners of the ports are -
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Intake ( Rear )
you can see some casting it varies from port to port at the seat

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RyanJ's stage 4

Chambers -

Loaded with 2.055 & 1.60 Ferrea 6000 series valves

F6114 intake 2.055" X 5.01" X 11/32" Super Flo

F6104 exhaust 1.60" X 5.01" X 11/32" Super Flo

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Intake ( Front)
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Intake (Rear)
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Exhaust
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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMNCE >>>
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:58 am 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
LAST UPDATE FOR NOW -

Got to run over to Fonse's tonight -

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Comp's 1622 Ultra Pro Magnum Rockers setup nicely on the ported head. They have a mile from the spring and retainer.

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Harland Sharp's dont sit over the tip as nice stock. They are close to the springs - too close!

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Comp's weigh in a touch lighter then the HS

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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMANCE>>>
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 12:06 pm 
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Location: Maple Shade, NJ
awesome !! You picked the right place for the work!

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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMANCE>>>
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 10:16 am 
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Location: Amity, Pa.
Nice write up and pictures.

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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMANCE>>>
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:00 pm 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
Thanks - If you guys are interested i'll keep the updates coming as we progress...

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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMANCE>>>
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:43 pm
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Location: Real Men Run Hemi's
Keep it coming DJV. Al Fonse has been doing work for us for years. On time, and done right.

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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMANCE>>>
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:43 am 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
Got some more progress to report over at Fonse Performance.

Since the block is tubed for soild lifters on one side of the block the other side has to be cut off form oil flow altogether. The Mopar instructions always stated to put a pipe plug in the left side galley - the same result can be achieved by tapping a plugging right above the #1 main.
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Another interesting point was the ARP bolt in the #5 main at the oil pump. It was not necessary for a stud in this location so we are using a stock bolt in that location. Here is an ARP bolt we could have used, but if you go this route, you need to double check the thread depth, as the ARP bolt is longer and can bottom out before proper torque is applied.

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After all the oil mods were done I got to run solvent through all the oil passages. The brushes removed the last of the debris before another session with the jet wash.
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After the jet wash it was rinsed with a pressure washer making sure to get into all the oil passages.

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Once more - in the block this time - the COMP 828 Lifters:
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and the 8043's
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Here is the top end of the motor, Ported ( stage 4) Eddy heads by RyanJ, Eddy Super Victor and a custom Comp solid roller. This is one of a few setups that will be tested out before this gets off the dyno, but this is the one that will be making the big numbers for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMANCE>>>
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:12 pm 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
Long overdue update!

I've been plugging away at the motor, bottom end is assembled and we're getting on the top end soon... cant wait!

Both stock and ported eddy's were CC'd ( intake, exhaust, & chambers ) before we flowed them
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Also got the crank balanced - we needed almost 170 grams off both sides and instead of drilling the hell out of the crank we milled off the weight. There are a bunch of ways to get this done but this is a better result then the drill at that amount.

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You can see this SBF was drilled to death - not the most professional way to get it done.

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With assembly right around the corner I whittled away at the oil pump and passages - the filter area and rear cap took the most work - here is a progress shot.

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With everything clean we file fit the rings... getting there!

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HOME SWEET HOME!!!

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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMANCE>>>
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:53 pm 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
All washed and ready for assembly!

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Got the pins & rings on - the pistons have wire locks - man i go them down by piston number 8 - lol

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A little lube on the threads and bottom of the heads to achieve accurate torque
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Sinking the pistons in and the chamfer goes to the crank side. you can also see the radius on the crank and the narrow bearing that misses the crank.

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ARP's ring compressor made dropping the pistons in a breeze - it's tall enough to get the rings set in it at the bench and then drop it right in at the block with your thumbs.

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A couple feeler gauges set in between the rods keep everything square and true while torquing.

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The 4.125" stroke and 2.00 inch rod journal make plenty of room where a stock mopar diameter rod would be into the pickup tube. I'd be curious of the 4.250 stroke in this area

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Before checking the pan to pickup clearance - please look over and clean your pan - any weld spatter or dirt will get right into the engine.. ours had weld spatter, and took a bit to get it cleaned and free of these little buggers -

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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMANCE>>>
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:50 am 
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60ft

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:39 am
Posts: 70
Location: Atco, NJ
Here is the Youtube link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-d18S-r ... ure=colike

ok - time for the recap

get 5 gallons of Sunoco Ultra 93 and headed over to make some pulls
We bolted the engine up the day before so we were ready to make some pulls when we got there.

It fired right off - good sign!

Made the first pull after a warmup, set timing, and check for leaks.
No oil or water leaks were a damn good sign of things when we were warming it up.


1st pull was mild as we were seating the rings, as well as making sure the Holley Ultra HP 750 was jetted close.

With everything good to go the hammer went down - we made the pulls from 3000 to 5600 as it started dropping off after that.

What we wound up with was:
511.7 hp @ 5400
&
566 ft/lbs @ 4200

Flat torque curve does not describe this motor - there was 519 ft/lbs @ 3000 and stayed over 500 ft / lbs until 5400
That's averaging 515 ft/lbs for the entire run!

We changed the carb to an 830 & got within 1 hp of the 750 - seems to me the carb is not limiting the engine at this point.

I was surprised that a stock casting eddy head could pull that much power, I was expecting under 500 for sure.

I'm kinda glad things were uneventful in terms of problems, it was just an easy Sunday afternoon!

THANKS SR !


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 Post subject: Re: <<<430 small block mopar build - By FONSE PERFORMANCE>>>
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:55 pm 
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60ft
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:45 pm
Posts: 315
Location: North Carolina
Awesome!!!! I have a Fonse motor with more passes on it than we thought possible and it's still too fast !!! Lol. Thanks Team Fonse!!!!

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